What kind of efforts french have to do ?

[Alicia]

Its important to hear about what you are expecting about french people for better relations ?
And what do you think as indian people you have to do also for better relations ?

[dhruvshah_81]

Ohh this is indeed interesting thread...exchange of culture..
With very little time i have spent in france what i have experienced is
Regarding French first
Many of them(especially elder people) have this mentality of not speaking english. Well its good that they have enough pride in their language. But atleast they should not ignore/discriminate people who dont know french and survive on english. They should try to help people who dont speak french. I had experienced this on my very first week in paris. Young french are a bit different in their approach. They indeed help non french speakers and are very helpful in other matters too.
Also i have seen(wasnt first hand experience but was more of instincts) that Europian see people of india as 3rd world country(i hate this "3rd world country" thing).

Regarding Indians
Well the most basic problem of indians is that they try to live in their domain only. I mean they try to make friends with either indians or pakis...they dont get involve with french or other europians much. I dont know why but they usually go around with their own indians/asian friends.

[Sourav]

In general

Well, I think people to people contact is the best way to develop relationship between two cultures and come over misconceptions.

I have found french people are very nice, I'm married to a french and hence know the french people and the culture pretty closely. They are nice people but also possess a lot of prejudices about India and Indian culture ... probably we Indians back home (our parents, for example, who don't know france and french cultures) also possess a lot of prejudices about the french cultures, for example.

To some extent, probably it's natural that people will have prejudices about a distant culture, and more there will be people to people contact, more that will be erased.

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What the french media can do

The french media is pretty biased, I will tell, so they need to change their attitude. They should stop portraying India as a poverty ridden barbaric culture and show realities with a positive attitude.

I love the guy called François Gautier, the french author, for example - he is very positive, and looks at realities with a realistic mind.

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What the church can do

The church should respect other religions. The very basic concept of Hinduism lies in the statement that it's not important what path you take, what's important that we must take the path to God. In Hinduism we accept that there are different paths and different prophets and all are praying the same God.

Whereas in churches here, I have found that the sessions start with a statement that opines - "Christ - the only son of the only God". I find this offensive as by this statement we are telling that he who is not following the path of Christ is not following the path of God. This should be changed as this school of philisophy looks down at other religions. We can tell - "Christ - the son of God" by removing the two "only"s, or even better, "Christ - our prophet".

After all, religions must teach brotherhood, and not the philosophy of "either my path or you have no path". Respecting others who are different from us is important.

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What the french education system can do

French education system can take it's role too. There's a lot of basic misconceptions here that comes directly from the bottom level. The history of colonization should be taught in the true spirit of humanity, and we should accept the evil it has done to the world.

There are other things where the schools should come forward to teach the "right" things to children. India had a glorious past and it's contribution to mankind should be recognized. People here still learn that the decimal numbers have come from the Arabs. This should be corrected and they need to learn that the decimal number system is an Indian contribution.

Same as other things like the invention of missiles, what we think is of western origin, where as the first developed missiles came from India.

The same goes for the development of vaccination or medical surgery, which are all taught to be of western origin, whereas these things have come from India, and the list is indeed endless.

Gypsies are taught to have come from Egypt, that misconception must also be changed and we need to teach our children that they are from India. Also, the general negative image of the gypsies must also change. We should not generalize a whole cultural group as either good or bad.

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What the french government can do

From the religious point of view, having come from a country where all religions have equal right, I think that it's good also if all the religions have equal rights. State should be seperated from religious beliefs and should not interfere in one's personal belief.

If a married person is allowed to wear her or his marriage ring in schools, or if schools are allowed to put the xmass tree during the christmass, or different christian days are public holidays here, we can not prevent a sikh to wear turban in schools.

As, if we do this, we are telling that christians have more rights than sikhs. This is not good in my opinion. Or, we can declare that France is a christian country, as then there won't be any ambiguity.

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What the Indians can do

The list will be much longer, since we are a nation busy rebuilding ourselves, after some 800 years of foreign occupation. We are in a situation where we have lost our cultural pride and often lost identifying ourselves. So we need time, to get rid of the colonial hangovers, and as I have opined so many times, must go back to the root of Veda and from there start rebuilding.

We are still nurturing X number of things left to us by the Mogols and the British during their rule. We have to shrug them off, when they are not good; but getting rid of a maladie that lasted for 800 years will take some time, surely. Hopefully, we are moving fast now.

In general, Indians who are here can try to mix more with the locals, but this is tough, due to all the prejudices as we see back home as well, that the french community of delhi hardly mix with Indians so freely, and for the reason that we are always more comfortable being with someone who had the same cultural upbringing as us. As I have told, this is a long work, and more there will be people to people contact, better it will be.

As in my case, my perception of the french and french cultures have changes a lot during my 5 years of life here. There were a lot of things that I used to see through a black glass earlier, what now I understand better, and see as "normal".

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Conclusion

Whatever we are, Indians or French, I think it's important we respect and recognize each other and our differences and try to understand, if we are different - why we are so, if these two civilisations want to come closer ... and that will slowly but surely will bring us closer and closer.

[bablubhai]

This is an excellent question raised by Alicia .
This was said by Dhruv in quotes "Many of them(especially elder people) have this mentality of not speaking english. Well its good that they have enough pride in their language". To reply this I can say if tomorrow you speak English with my grandmother who is 70 years old she can't have a conversation with you. So as far as elder people not speaking English I think it's quite OK because even in my country I can find a lot of elder people not speaking English.They feel English is just another language and it should be treated at par with other languages without giving unwanted importance. We as youngsters should not pay heed to this and just learn the french language as early as possible.Believe me -- if you learn the language you will stop half of the complaints about french people . The other things is about Superiority complex. I feel that (not all) some french people have this complex. They feel that they are much more superior than Asians.The media is also responsible . I saw on M6 (channel television) a serial called as CAPTIAL a documentry about INDIA . They always show poverty , huts, underdevelopment about India. They don't show anything about India's development path or improving middle class.The media here is very very biased. Even when you hear the Football commentry , the french commentators appreciate very few their opponents.

[Sourav]

Yes Bablu, media is indeed an issue here - rightly said, however, media is nothing but a part of the society as well. Media reflects what the society thinks, or how the society wants to think.

[Sourav]

I've liked the other post where Alicia has asked what we like in France? This may be one of the most effective ways of developing relationship and getting over the prejudices, if we concentrate on positives. Asking Indians what we like about France and asking French what they like about India is a very good way to move forward.

Similarly, we can also discuss what we don't understand on another culture, the negative perceptions, I mean. Because, if we don't, we will keep sitting with the negative things in mind and will never change. Discussing on things, and facing the negative perceptions head on, accepting our weak points and explaining the false prejudices can also be another nice way to move forward.
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[naresh]

Bablubhai urf Abhijeet ji has correctly said ...i am totally agree with him. Am not totally against Dhruv's statement but yes when we can not expect elderly people inIndia to speak English so same we should not expect here too. Also once you learn the language things would be easy for all of us...Further yes the complexity problem. Also we see France and other countries as big foreign countries and expect more from them and get shocked and suprise when they do not meet to our expectations....however We should not forget that History has played important role in our country . Atleast French people are maintaning their language and we neither speak properly in Hindi and neither in English.

For me what matters is knoweldge ,honesty in terms of love towards once country and your efforts in learning things and excepting it. Things are not easy in India and same way in France.The most important is that how well you can adjust with food,lanugage ,people,culture and habits of other country.Way of doing things can be different like we say nameste and they say Bonjour and exchange kisses...but what matters is that in both the case we have greeted nicely. We just can not compare things and countries and draw conclusions.....

[bablubhai]

"Media reflects what the society thinks, or how the society wants to think. " .. Saurav this is what you said in one of your replies . I tried to read it many times but the more I read the more your statements seems incorrect to me . Just to give an example
1) Gujrat riots
2) Human right violation in kashmir .. I think these 2 things was/are not covered enough in indian Media . So it does not means that Indian society supports riots or human rights violation in kashmir. Your statement of generalising or labelling the whole society on the basis of media is a bit unfair. I am sure that if you ask the french people you will find many people don't agree with the media says . Take the example of the Rogue trader "Jerome karviel". The media project him as the only responsible for the frauds in Socgen. But here the french people think differently. They say that he was made a scapegoat.
I think the french people (not all) have the tendency to think that their country / culture is the best in the world and sometimes they overdo it . When they show documentries in China they always the negative things about China. They make a small statement that "china is growing" but .... then they continue to project the bad stuff ... U ask them about their opinion about other countries they immediately start comparing it with france ..

[naresh]

To add up Abhijeets statement Media do play role somehow in putting and expressing the image of country in positive and negative way....Unless u talk to people and clarify things they excpet the truth what has been shown by media...even Indian families are never happy when someone wish to marry a non-Indian...i think we have to think in a broader way and understands and respect other cultures too...There are horrible and terrible things happening in India too and had happened in past.So we can not blindly talk about our culture and do not except others....

Its an issue which can not be expressed much in words but yes we can discuss on it or a debate perhaps/

[Alicia]

First of all, with my so bad english, lol i'll try to explain my point of view... in a short comment. I can't do apologize for old people who haven't learnt english and who aren't able to understand people who aren't french.... I'm not trying to take the defense of my own ok ? I'm only trying to explain what i feel, sincerly.... I think old people have also fear in themselves because they have known war in their life and old people who are intelligent can understand that the best way is to continue to be opened to the world but people who aren't enough intelligent, because its their nature and becauce we aren't all equal, can't understand the role they have to take, actually too.... By the way, hope you'll have understand what i want to share......with my so basic english....
But i have to make apologizes for actual french people who would want to stay a tourist countrie, but who aren't trying to open their mind, who aren't trying to learn international languages.
For this, of course, i'm sad and i'm ashamed......
It not means i'm agree with old people but before to judge we have to try to understand why they are what they are.... And i'm sure you'll understand what i want to say and what i have tried to share.....
I only hope, with time, french will try to stop to think they have no effort to do only because they are french. I really hope they'll take their responsabilities also to build another better world for future....
And at least of course its probably more difficult for us to learn english because we haven't been colonised by them. As its also difficult as you have said for some people to learn hindi in India....
Don't think i'm writing as a french, i'm really trying to write and th ink as a human being......

[naresh]

I agree Alicia with you .But i am not totally agree with your statement

'and at least of course its probably more difficult for us to learn english because we haven't been colonised by them.''

France were colonised to some extent by Germany specially nothern france/Paris...but i do not think if everyone or Parisians speaks fluent German...

I think there are many reasons---
first that we have been colonized by Britishers for long time and now its our second national language and official language too..
Secondly we have 19 regional languages and most of us know minimum three language... mothertounge,hindi and English....so its easy for Indians too to learn more languages....
Perhaps other factors such as International market, future , wish to study abroad, career , and etc....

[Alicia]

True Naresh, we have probably during long time a bad nationalism, to protect our language, and sure french is a very rich language and i'm myself very proud of my language, but, its a good point to significate that when we have been colonized by german its not means we have learnt dutch, lol... Absolutly true... So for joking i'll say, we, french are very stupid then.... Cryyyyyyyyyyyyy. I have to go to buy a brain now to the nearest shop i'll find, lol....
I got it, and thanks to be on here, in France, all of you, thanks to bring to all of us, an opportunity to become more universal......

Alicia

[naresh]

I think this is what i like about of French people sometimes . Indians are mostly running and getting attracted towards western culture . Which is not bad . but it should not be at the stake of our culture...Yes its nice to have a broad mind and thought in terms of understanding. We are Indians and we are truely proud of it...

[dhruvshah_81]

bablubhai
i guess you only pick one line of my post..it was in continuation...the second line which was crux is
"But atleast they should not ignore/discriminate people who dont know french and survive on english. "

[dhruvshah_81]

Moroever i guess people have taken my comment negatively..
First of all i really liked and luv paris...but what bothered me once that one guy(about 40-50 yrs) almost didnt help me..infact i should say didnt perform his duty...just coz i was not speaking french.
The very 2-3rd day in my college..i went to this university residence administrator..he was like very rude..i dont know reason(may be he was in bad mood that day)...but when i tried to ask him about residence he was so rude..and said...Non anglais..only french here(said in french..but i could infer that he was saying this)...and i had to come with other person..

I really admire people who give respect to their own language..infact i dont want indians to learn english first..i want them to know hindi first and than english...even if they dont know english its ok..but hindi they should know...
but my point is...even if you dont have common language..you can atleast try to undstd what other man is saying and try to help them...
Secondly i am not generalising this to every french..i said few people like the one whom i talked about and one person in restaurant(other small incident) were kinda ignoring me(coz i didnt speak french)...
but with younger generation...the one in my lab are amazingly helpful...

So please dont generalise my statement..